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User talk:PageOfSwords
Welcome Hi, welcome to ! Thanks for your edit to the User talk:Airgrimes page, but before you continue editing please take a look at our page guides. Please leave me a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! Chinkycandie (talk) 08:54, March 12, 2015 (UTC) MH Bring the long conversation here :p I do agree only Atobe had the pleasure of being the only MS to play in all the 3 official matches - tie-breaker elimination, shuffle match, and G-10 match. If you really think about it, most of the MS played 2/3. Its just Kirihara still isn't strong enough to defeat Yanagi. But Yanagi forfeited the tie-breaker so Kirihara can get stronger but Yanagi got stronger even more from the mountain training (big mistake here). If Kirihara was sent to mountain training, I know he'd get stronger and would be worthy to be a MS Representative. With Nakagauchi though, he only had the shuffle match. And he only won by default not score-wise. He got knocked unconscious from Date/Ban as well. Its pretty much just these two Airgrimes & I have an issue with. Chinkycandie (talk) 09:08, March 12, 2015 (UTC) You don't have any evidence that Kirihara improved less than Yanagi did nor that he's still weaker. Likwise I can't prove that Kirihara's better beyond a shadow of a doubt, but both Yanagi and Devil Akaya have a stat total of 18 at least, so it's not clear cut. Also, you're still only looking at this in the context of singles. In PoT, Fuji and Kawamura individually are both stronger than Oishi and Kikumaru respectively, but in doubles Oishi/Kikumaru was much stronger throughout the entire series. Momoshiro is also a better singles player than Oishi, but Oishi/Kikumaru is better than Momoshiro/Kikumaru. Irie aside, Nakagauchi had the strongest showing of all the 3rd court high schoolers in the team shuffle. He toyed with Krauser and won even though Krauser got stronger during the match. Miyako and Matsudaira essentially lost 0-6 after Shiraishi and Akaya got their power ups, Yamato couldn't do anything once Tezuka saw through GUYU and Washio and Suzuki were saved by WoK not being able to maintain Synchro. For the 1st String match, he was KO'd by Date specifically. Konomi made it a point to show Nakagauchi getting slammed into the fence rather than just being on the ground like everyone else. You can't overlook those details. And that's why he's replacing Ban and not Date. PageOfSwords (talk) 09:40, March 12, 2015 (UTC) During the tie-breaker elimination, Akaya went demon/devil mode and Yanagi still didn't have an issue with him. In regards to doubles and singles, Oishi is a fairly useless tennis player without Niou/Kikumaru. I wonder what kind of doubles partner he will have in the WC. I wonder if he'd work well with Kirihara. Since Oishi is a doubles strategist, Kirihara might benefit from him. Any singles player > Oishi but Oishi/Kikumaru/Niou > other doubles pairing. Truthfully all of court 3 were doomed from the start. Just so the MSs could advance higher. Despite Nakagauchi toying with Krauser, he still won by default. Unlike the others who lost by lower points. That's the wishy-washy part. With your last paragraph, that's something I didn't think of. Nakagauchi would never be able to replace Date anyway :P By the way, I made links for Phoenix of Egypt and Bull Fighting of the Spanish (on Byodoin's page) so you can start those pages if you know anything (I don't). Also, you might want to check out the Execution Methods. That was hard to explain. Maybe your insight might help :) Chinkycandie (talk) 10:00, March 12, 2015 (UTC) Yes, that's true, but you're assuming that they already had equal stats at that time when we don't actually know that. For instance, it's possible that during the tiebreaker, Yanagi had a 15 stat total and Devil Akaya's was 14 (random numbers, but you get the point). Exactly. Even if Yanagi > Kirihara in singles, it doesn't automatically follow that Shiraishi/Yanagi > Shiraishi/Kirihara. So provided that Kirihara's main purpose it to play doubles with Shiraishi, his inclusion can be justified on that alone. Oh yeah, how is winning by default a bad thing? It's not like Krauser got injured and couldn't continue as a result, Nakagauchi forced the forfeit. I can look at them, but honestly not much is known about them. Phoenix of Egypt is like a top level, super aggressive Hoshi Hanabi (hit extremely high into the sky then comes crashing down, but instead of aiming for the open court it tries to hit the opponent) and Bullfighting of Spain is an extremely strong blur ball. Speaking of the world techniques, this is just my opinion, but I think it might be a good idea to change them all to the same format (so "X of Country") for the sake of consistency. Konomi isn't a master of all languages, so I'd almost wager that these are meant to be consistent and he got some of the specifics wrong. The execution methods are all simple moves, they just aim at specific body parts and once you got hit by all 13 you're paralyzed. There's some contention to how damaging they actually are due to Tsuuge's fanbook comments. PageOfSwords (talk) 10:12, March 12, 2015 (UTC) I'd say Shirashi/Yanangi>-Shirashi/Kirihara (greater than or equal to). Kirihara would do well to play doubles with Niou, Kite (their playstyle could work well), Oishi, and maybe even Akutsu. I don't think they'll stick him with Shiraishi all the time even if it will benefit Kirihara's Angel Mode. Konomi might give him another mode if he partnered up with someone else as well. There's nothing bad about winning by default. In honesty, Nakagauchi didn't force the forfeit, Krauser's overuse of Sourthern Cross took a toll on his own body (he forced it upon himself). Just like Tokugawa's overuse of Black Hole. I can accept that match because it was such a tight-knit match. Not so much with Krauser vs Nakagauchi. Fairly boring if you ask me. That's a good idea but should ask Airgrimes as well. You kind of showed you have some knowledge of those techniques. Could you look at the executions and see if anything is missing? Chinkycandie (talk) 10:35, March 12, 2015 (UTC) In my eyes Shiraishi/Kirihara is better. Sane Devil Mode is a Devil Mode without the drawbacks, so Sane Devil Akaya would probably have like a ~20 stat total. I think it will depend on how much of the MS WC Konomi is going to show. I'm pretty convinced that the Japanese MSers are going to be the best or second best team there right from the start, so we might only get to see the finals there. In that case I think the doubles pairs will largely stay the same. If we see multiple rounds there could be some alterations, but probably also not that many. It was a combination of both. It's true that Krauser's playstyle is extremely stamina draining, but Krauser was already pretty tired out before he even started hitting his special moves, just because Nakagauchi made him run from one side of the court to the other for the entire first half of the match. The match ended like it did to show that 3rd court was a significant step up from the HSers the MSers had faced so far (minus Oni), I don't think it was meant to be extraordinarily entertaining. That demonstration continued for the first half of D2 where Shiraishi/Kirihara were down 0-4. Yeah, I can look at them. PageOfSwords (talk) 10:49, March 12, 2015 (UTC) See you're already making contributions! You are more accurate. Don't be afraid to start a new page for Byodoin's techniques :P I've read your comments and made those edits. Most of the MSs caught up quickly even if they were losing badly. I think that was just showcasing MSs strength and showing how fodder half of Court 3 were. They defeated court 4 without an issue but MSs gave them a hard time. But then again, Tezuka, Kirihara, Shiraishi (Golden Gauntlet) received major boosts in their matches. Chinkycandie (talk) 11:00, March 12, 2015 (UTC) Well, of course the MSers overcame them eventually, but the first match and a half were essentially meant to make the HSers look scary. Shiraishi, Kirihara and Krauser all made the national finals or semi finals and the way they were they got beaten badly. And then right after the MSers got their victories, D1 served as a reminder that 3rd court should be respected. PageOfSwords (talk) 11:39, March 12, 2015 (UTC) Obviously it would be stupid to make court 3 lose all the matches, especially if the defeated court 4 :P Chinkycandie (talk) 12:00, March 12, 2015 (UTC) Firstly I wanna thank Kaoz for his contributions. Really appreciate the major corrections. What's your opinion in regards to Kirihara being able to make the cut based on his performances as SDM!Akaya with Shirashi and Oishi when paired with Niou, but then Oishi playing without Niou at the WC? Oishi unlike Kirihara is pretty damn weak when not playing with Kikumaru. Remember they won courtesy of Niou's hack Synchro ability which doesn't require Oishi. Like, Oishi/Kite or Oishi/Kirihara or Oishi/Fuji sounds frighteningly inferior to WoK for instance. With Kirihara, I kinda feel Konomi would've emphasised the moment that Kirihara finally overcame one of the Big 3 at Rikkai surely. Like I understand your theory with AM/SDM Akaya being at possibly 20 in base stats when paired with Shiraishi but the gap in their ranking numbers is a little too much. If Kirihara goes to the tournament to play with Shiraishi that's fine. But the moment he plays with someone else like Oishi then its as if Japan didn't go to this tournament to win with such a measly pair. Like Oishi isn't even a cut above the rest when it comes to makeshift Doubles pairs with such measly stats. Oishi Territory was being coped with all the way back at Nationals lol. (More importantly Oishi/Niou synchro was defeated by Mutsu bros. It was Niou's exclusive move that made them win.) And lastly, in regards to the sequencing, why is Shiraishi ahead of Tooyama/Akutsu/Sanada? and nowhere near his Doubles partner? Or am I being too pessimistic and should wait for Konomi to explain it in his story? Airgrimes (talk) 01:31, March 13, 2015 (UTC) Well, again, how do you figure that Oishi is not going to play with Niou? Also, I still think you're not giving Oishi enough credit - Oishi Territory + Moon Volley did work on the twins (in fact it's the only way we've seen them score after the twins started using Synchro) and Kurobe praises it in the fanbook. Kurobe also says that Oishi has a lot of untapped potential because he's always more concerned about other than himself if that means anything to you. Shiraishi is ahead of the others because he won his match whereas the others didn't. I know Kirihara technically also won and I concede that this part isn't explained well, but from my understanding the win is attributed to Shiraishi alone and that's why they're so far apart. PageOfSwords (talk) 07:25, March 13, 2015 (UTC) Frankly, I think the question you should be asking isn't "Why is Shiraishi so high?", but rather "Why is Kirihara so low?"; if we can figure that out the list is very consistent. I think it makes sense for Niou to be separate from Atobe (he wasn't able to play any more after the 1st set) and Kite being separate from Marui (he wasn't able to deal with either Kimijima or Tohno), but I haven't quite figured out yet at which points during the team shuffle Kirihara was struggling when Shiraishi wasn't. PageOfSwords (talk) 17:00, March 13, 2015 (UTC) Whilst I acknowledge ppl generally discredit Oishi for his use of Moon Volley in that Mutsu bros encounter, my argument is that of the ppl not chosen who had a 5 in Tech, couldn't they surely all hit skilled lobs just like Oishi in that scenario thus making them more useful than Oishi since Niou/Oishi synchro is already proven to be inadequate at that level and outside of Synchro due to Oishi's stats it makes it hard to acknowledge where that "untapped potential" can go. Honest question, iirc Oishi has a base of 15? What could his potential reach in your opinion? Its not like Kirihara who whilst I think is weak at least has his DM mode stats to back up his place. I see fairly long list of ppl better than Oishi for this. Shishido I think would have been a far better choice outside of Synchro with Niou. I agree the list is v consistent for the most part. In my time away from MH I've been going over it again and again to see the signs from Konomi that I missed. And this is the issue that kept replaying over and over again: I feel Yuki/Atobe's achievements in the camp are a cut above the rest. King of Tennis jokes aside. But Shiraishi being 3rd due to being the catalyst to defeating Miyako/Matsudaira is a bit much. Yukimura's match & in the 5days of Shuffles was likely flawless and was the best of MSers, Atobe's was probably next best? Idk but why are matches all the way back from the Team Shuffle arc being used to rank them when there was a 5day shuffle? Like surely Shirashi's rank3 placement must mean he had the next best Shuffle results? And Kirihara's results were far worse? Because in that match whilst Kirihara individually lost the Mental battle he was involved in too much ass-kicking with those nice smashes for such a gap to exist. Airgrimes (talk) 16:36, March 15, 2015 (UTC) Nah, I don't think it's as easy as you're making it out to be. Consider that even though Niou Synchro'd with the twins, that likely didn't enable him to weaken their defense, it just allowed him to return their shots more reliably. So the other player still has to overcome the court coverage of a Synchro pair and I don't think just having 5 Tec is enough for that. It's not only about being able to hit a topspin lob on the baseline, but also about recognizing when to hit and where the opening is in the opponent's formation. I also don't think Niou/Oishi with Synchro are going to be outclassed in the MS WC like they were against the twins. As far as the MSers are concerned, Japan probably has one of the top line-ups in the tournament as it is. As for his potential, I can't really give you a number, but I'd say he could become the strongest doubles specialist. Next, I don't think those shuffles had as much impact as you think. I believe they were only used to determine who gets to play against Fuwa and the only thing we can really conclude from them is that Yukimura did the best. Because of this I also think that the MSers didn't play any of the HSers and that's why the coaches still value the team shuffle from before then, because those matches were against HS opponents. And like I said, I haven't quite figured out yet why Kirihara is so low, but I'll get there someday. Suggestion Just a suggestion. No one has done manga chapters. I don't think a huge block of text is neccessary. More a paragraph of the summary, like you do on MH. I think it got started but no one could be bothered to finish it. Since Sai tells you the spoilers. And it will quickly increase your edits. Chinkycandie (talk) 12:18, March 12, 2015 (UTC) Don't mind doing it, but given how short the chapters are at times, it might be better to just do volume summaries instead? PageOfSwords (talk) 12:28, March 12, 2015 (UTC) Already signed out? Lol I think the summaries on MH will do (they don't spoil that much). Other information can include new characters introduced, and techniques if any. Every volume has their own pages and they pretty much list the chapters. If more people from MH came over that would help a lot XD Chinkycandie (talk) 12:32, March 12, 2015 (UTC) By the way, your edit on Wonder Castle made it so easy to read :) Many of the technqiues pages are kind of filled with unneeded text. Chinkycandie (talk) 12:34, March 12, 2015 (UTC) I was still signed in when I started writing, dunno why it logged me out. So you essentially just want the real basic information for each chapter. Sounds simple enough. Thanks, I'll edit them over time I guess. PageOfSwords (talk) 13:01, March 12, 2015 (UTC) I'll unlock them to registered users only so it'll be easier for you to edit technique pages with unnecceassary information. Chinkycandie (talk) 23:41, March 12, 2015 (UTC) That'll be helpful, thanks. PageOfSwords (talk) 07:26, March 13, 2015 (UTC) I wrote a summary for chapter 2, let me know if that's the kind of thing you had in mind, or if it's too detailed/not detailed enough. PageOfSwords (talk) 17:36, March 13, 2015 (UTC) Looks good. Not too informative and not too little. Good work :D Chinkycandie (talk) 00:07, March 14, 2015 (UTC) Can you delete the chapter 1 page then? Can't edit the current one. PageOfSwords (talk) 05:42, March 14, 2015 (UTC) What do you mean? It's been locked to registered users only. Chinkycandie (talk) 06:15, March 14, 2015 (UTC) I can't edit it, it only gives me the View Source option. PageOfSwords (talk) 06:38, March 14, 2015 (UTC) Add what you want to write onto the talk page and I'll add it from there. Chinkycandie (talk) 08:17, March 14, 2015 (UTC) Ok. Also, I feel like it might be a good idea to include a link to the previous chapter at the beginning and one to the next chapter at the end of the summary, that way it'll be easier to just click through the chapters if you want and it obviously doesn't take up much space. Yes/no? PageOfSwords (talk) 08:38, March 14, 2015 (UTC) That requires a template. I'll see if I can make one XD Chinkycandie (talk) 08:48, March 14, 2015 (UTC) So I made the previous/next chapter template. I also made a navigation template. Its complete for volume 1 at the moment. When the chapters from volume 2 will be made, I'll made another navigation template for volume 2 and so on. Already implemented :) Chinkycandie (talk) 09:24, March 14, 2015 (UTC) Looks good. I'll be able to dedicate more time to this next week. PageOfSwords (talk) 09:40, March 14, 2015 (UTC)